Philadelphia: You've only got 39 players. Wow, someone besides me that recognizes Tully Sparks! I have analyzed this staff over and over and always conclude that Sparks needs to be on it, but I have NEVER seen Sparks mentioned by anyone until I saw your list. Interesting ... my top four (post 1900) catchers are Spud Davis, Boone, Lieberthal, and Seminick, all of whom missed your team. (I had Daulton and Lopata as #5 and #6). How close are Cy Williams and Greg Luzinski?
Pitcher Earl Moore was the missing guy. Thanks for the catch.
Catchers (through Davis) rank as follows: Jack Clements (29.5), Darren Daulton (21.9), Stan Lopata (17.7), Mike Lieberthal (15.8), Andy Seminick (15.7,) Bob Boone (13.4), Clay Dalrymple (13.3), Spud Davis (12.2). It's worth mentioning that Clements also qualifies as an Outfielder, but none of the alternate Catchers are even CLOSE to beating out the 9th Outfielder. (Keep reading.)
I’m a bit surprised to see Daulton rated that high. The competition for the 3rd spot is pretty tight. And again, I think there’s a problem with dWAR, because Boone, IMHO, is arguably the best defensive Catcher not named “Johnny Bench” and yet he only gets 0.5 dWAR over TEN YEARS. That’s… bullshit. But until they fix it, it is what it is. Lieberthal ends up even worse: -1.7 dWAR over thirteen years, and he (like Boone) won a Gold Glove! So with a better valuation of defense, I could see Boone replacing Lopata. I think Daulton is rated too highly to be knocked out by any defensive adjustments; and besides: he was tagged with a -3.9 dWAR over fourteen years, so any positive adjustment would likely help him as well.
Cy Williams was close... sort of. His 24.8 WAR actually ties him with Von Hayes, but Hayes qualified at First Base, so he’s current taking the third 1B Slot. (Probably to be knocked off by Ryan Howard in the next few years.) But the lowest rated OUTFIELDER on team is CHUCK KLEIN (30.9). So, from that POV, he's not all that close. He's just behind Lenny Dykstra (25.0) who ranked right above him and Hayes, all-time. There was also John Titus (25.8), Gary Maddox (27.1) and Jack Clements(29.5) who made it in one of the Catchers' slots.
Greg Luzinski was even farther down, at 20.5 (just behind Ryan Howard at the end of the 2010 season, coincidentally.) The Outfielders between Luz and Cyclone were Tony Gonzalez (24.2) and Elmer Flick (24.0.)
from Hockeydad55:
ReplyDeletePhiladelphia: You've only got 39 players. Wow, someone besides me that recognizes Tully Sparks! I have analyzed this staff over and over and always conclude that Sparks needs to be on it, but I have NEVER seen Sparks mentioned by anyone until I saw your list. Interesting ... my top four (post 1900) catchers are Spud Davis, Boone, Lieberthal, and Seminick, all of whom missed your team. (I had Daulton and Lopata as #5 and #6). How close are Cy Williams and Greg Luzinski?
Pitcher Earl Moore was the missing guy. Thanks for the catch.
ReplyDeleteCatchers (through Davis) rank as follows: Jack Clements (29.5), Darren Daulton (21.9), Stan Lopata (17.7), Mike Lieberthal (15.8), Andy Seminick (15.7,) Bob Boone (13.4), Clay Dalrymple (13.3), Spud Davis (12.2). It's worth mentioning that Clements also qualifies as an Outfielder, but none of the alternate Catchers are even CLOSE to beating out the 9th Outfielder. (Keep reading.)
I’m a bit surprised to see Daulton rated that high. The competition for the 3rd spot is pretty tight. And again, I think there’s a problem with dWAR, because Boone, IMHO, is arguably the best defensive Catcher not named “Johnny Bench” and yet he only gets 0.5 dWAR over TEN YEARS. That’s… bullshit. But until they fix it, it is what it is. Lieberthal ends up even worse: -1.7 dWAR over thirteen years, and he (like Boone) won a Gold Glove! So with a better valuation of defense, I could see Boone replacing Lopata. I think Daulton is rated too highly to be knocked out by any defensive adjustments; and besides: he was tagged with a -3.9 dWAR over fourteen years, so any positive adjustment would likely help him as well.
Cy Williams was close... sort of. His 24.8 WAR actually ties him with Von Hayes, but Hayes qualified at First Base, so he’s current taking the third 1B Slot. (Probably to be knocked off by Ryan Howard in the next few years.) But the lowest rated OUTFIELDER on team is CHUCK KLEIN (30.9). So, from that POV, he's not all that close. He's just behind Lenny Dykstra (25.0) who ranked right above him and Hayes, all-time. There was also John Titus (25.8), Gary Maddox (27.1) and Jack Clements(29.5) who made it in one of the Catchers' slots.
Greg Luzinski was even farther down, at 20.5 (just behind Ryan Howard at the end of the 2010 season, coincidentally.) The Outfielders between Luz and Cyclone were Tony Gonzalez (24.2) and Elmer Flick (24.0.)
Von Hayes appears not to have his total Phillies WAR posted next to his name, although it is mentioned when Cy Williams is discussed.
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