Very nice review of Tribe history. As to your Keltner, Vizquel, & Thornton question, I don't like any of the options. All three are favorites. Keltner obviously played before my time, but his glove was still talked about by uncles & others when I was growing up. Thornton was about the best player on the Indians during my teen years and I can't think of him without reflecting on the tragedy that befell his family and the classy way he carried on after losing his wife and daughter. Vizquel is part of the great teams of the 90's and the best glove I ever got to watch on a regular basis. If I had to choose an option I'd reluctantly pick #1. Ask me again in a week and I'd say #3 which was my initial though when I first read your posting.
I hear you. Personally I can't see dropping Visquel at all, and while I'm personally biased towards Thorton who played when I was (also) a teen, I read about most of thosee same story you no doubt heard about Keltner. It's definitely a tough call.
BTW, Congratulations on former Indians Alomar and Blyleven getting the call today! Rik Aalbert has had my vote for years, and I was a bit surprised how close Alomar missed it by last year. I'm pretty happy with the two picks though.
Sandy Alomar was truly great... when healthy. but how often was that? IIRC, I think it was like… twice. And his better years, in the mid 1990's, have to be discounted for the era. He ends up with 12.4 WAR. Healthy, he might have done better, but as it was he has an *OPS+ of just 92 in Cleveland. That's enough for a positive WAR, especially for a Catcher, but it's still below average as a hitter. And becuase of injuries? He played just 985 games in ELEVEN years! At 89 Games/year, that's like missing almost half the season every year!
Now, I should mention that Romano was already one of my favorite old-school Catchers anyway. He had a much shorter career - just 5 years in Cleveland, playing 580 games, but he put up an *OPS+ of 123 at that time - PHENOMONAL for a Catcher. He was also at 10+ HR every year, twice clearing 20+ HR; which puts his power in the same class as Alomar's, except that Alomar hit his Homers in the 1990's and Romano hit them in the 1960's.
Defense-wise, the were comparable, Romano with a 0.2 dWAR and Alomar with 0.6, over abot twice as many games. But... I'll gladly admit that dWAR ins't perfect. In terms of gunning down runners? Alomar threw out 31% of 857 potential base stealers. Romano threw out 37% of 297. In the early 1960's stolen bases were not completely back in fashion yet, but even so, I'd argue that Romano was at least equivalent to a healthy Alomar defensively, and I KNOW he was a better hitter.
I'll give you this: Alomar will forever be one of those great "what might have been" cases, if only he had been able to stay healthy.
Very nice review of Tribe history. As to your Keltner, Vizquel, & Thornton question, I don't like any of the options. All three are favorites. Keltner obviously played before my time, but his glove was still talked about by uncles & others when I was growing up. Thornton was about the best player on the Indians during my teen years and I can't think of him without reflecting on the tragedy that befell his family and the classy way he carried on after losing his wife and daughter. Vizquel is part of the great teams of the 90's and the best glove I ever got to watch on a regular basis. If I had to choose an option I'd reluctantly pick #1. Ask me again in a week and I'd say #3 which was my initial though when I first read your posting.
ReplyDeleteI hear you. Personally I can't see dropping Visquel at all, and while I'm personally biased towards Thorton who played when I was (also) a teen, I read about most of thosee same story you no doubt heard about Keltner. It's definitely a tough call.
ReplyDeleteBTW, Congratulations on former Indians Alomar and Blyleven getting the call today! Rik Aalbert has had my vote for years, and I was a bit surprised how close Alomar missed it by last year. I'm pretty happy with the two picks though.
from Hockeydad55:
ReplyDeleteCleveland: Romano over Sandy Alomar?
In a word...? YEP!
ReplyDeleteSandy Alomar was truly great... when healthy. but how often was that? IIRC, I think it was like… twice. And his better years, in the mid 1990's, have to be discounted for the era. He ends up with 12.4 WAR. Healthy, he might have done better, but as it was he has an *OPS+ of just 92 in Cleveland. That's enough for a positive WAR, especially for a Catcher, but it's still below average as a hitter. And becuase of injuries? He played just 985 games in ELEVEN years! At 89 Games/year, that's like missing almost half the season every year!
Now, I should mention that Romano was already one of my favorite old-school Catchers anyway. He had a much shorter career - just 5 years in Cleveland, playing 580 games, but he put up an *OPS+ of 123 at that time - PHENOMONAL for a Catcher. He was also at 10+ HR every year, twice clearing 20+ HR; which puts his power in the same class as Alomar's, except that Alomar hit his Homers in the 1990's and Romano hit them in the 1960's.
Defense-wise, the were comparable, Romano with a 0.2 dWAR and Alomar with 0.6, over abot twice as many games. But... I'll gladly admit that dWAR ins't perfect. In terms of gunning down runners? Alomar threw out 31% of 857 potential base stealers. Romano threw out 37% of 297. In the early 1960's stolen bases were not completely back in fashion yet, but even so, I'd argue that Romano was at least equivalent to a healthy Alomar defensively, and I KNOW he was a better hitter.
I'll give you this: Alomar will forever be one of those great "what might have been" cases, if only he had been able to stay healthy.