Thanks for the note on Schaal and Grudzielanek. That's fixed now.
I was surprised about Wathan, but his biggest problem was hitting. A .262 career hitter, with a .318 OPB and a .343 SLG. He had speed - a strange asset for a Cather - but no average or power and he didn't draw walks. (Of course: why would you pitch around a guy who's FAST, but can't HIT?!) His 3.2 WAR also puts him behind John Buck (3.5). So he's out, even if Kirkpatrick had ended up in the OF. And just a quick look at defense: Wathan threw out 33% of 465 attempted base stealers in 572 Games, while Kirkpatrick threw out 57% of 212 in just 278 Games. Now... I certainly won't argue that Kirkpatrick was BETTER, defensively, than Wathan based only on that: after all, he DID end up getting moved to the Outfield! But I'd say that although he was only a Catcher for barely long enough to qualify at the position, he's shown he can hold his own behind the plate.
Cookie Rojas played seven+ years at 2B, racking up 4.2 WAR. This ties him with Alberto Collapso (4.2), and puts both immediately behind Grudz, at 6.6.
Rojas played for seven and a half years, put up an 87 *OPS+ and made the All-Star team four times. Like Wathan, Rojas was not much of a hitter: his .263/.306/.337 numbers are very similar to (slightly lower than) Wathan's. And he didn't have Wathan's speed. (Or at least, if he did, he didn't use it.)
Collapso, OTOH, played just two and a half years to rack up his 4.2 WAR. He had a 92 *OPS+; SLIGHTLY higher than Rojas, but I'll admit that it seems strange that he was able to catch Rojas' 7+ seasons in just 2+ with such a small difference. The difference might have been in thier dWAR: Both were (statistically) about the same, but both were a net negative, defensively. And Rojas played longer, so his defensive penalty was proportinately higher. (-2.3 to -1.2)
Grudzielanek (the third Second Baseman, with 6.6 WAR) was a better hitter than either of them, with a 96 *OPS+. But the biggest difference was on DEFENSE: Grudz was statistically a net POSITIVE with a dWAR of 1.3 over three years. (Where Rojas and Collapso were both in the red.)
Now... You can argue that one was better than the other, whatever... I've never actually seen Grudzielanek play, nor Collapso for that matter and Rojas was alomst a decade too early for me, as I didn;t start following baseball until I was ~12. And while I'll be the first to argue, pationately, that ANY defensive evaluation based on the standard Defensive stats (PO, A, E & DP's) is at best imperfect and at worst misleading, that's how the dWAR numbers worked out: Grudzielanek was a better defender than Rojas (and Collapso) and that's what kicked him over the top. I place no value judgement, nor do I have any ego invested, in that conclusion.
from Hockeydad55:
ReplyDeleteKanasa City: Kirkpartick over Wathan? And no Cookie Rojas? btw, no WAR rating shown for Schaal or Grudzielanek.
Thanks for the note on Schaal and Grudzielanek. That's fixed now.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised about Wathan, but his biggest problem was hitting. A .262 career hitter, with a .318 OPB and a .343 SLG. He had speed - a strange asset for a Cather - but no average or power and he didn't draw walks. (Of course: why would you pitch around a guy who's FAST, but can't HIT?!) His 3.2 WAR also puts him behind John Buck (3.5). So he's out, even if Kirkpatrick had ended up in the OF. And just a quick look at defense: Wathan threw out 33% of 465 attempted base stealers in 572 Games, while Kirkpatrick threw out 57% of 212 in just 278 Games. Now... I certainly won't argue that Kirkpatrick was BETTER, defensively, than Wathan based only on that: after all, he DID end up getting moved to the Outfield! But I'd say that although he was only a Catcher for barely long enough to qualify at the position, he's shown he can hold his own behind the plate.
Cookie Rojas played seven+ years at 2B, racking up 4.2 WAR. This ties him with Alberto Collapso (4.2), and puts both immediately behind Grudz, at 6.6.
Rojas played for seven and a half years, put up an 87 *OPS+ and made the All-Star team four times. Like Wathan, Rojas was not much of a hitter: his .263/.306/.337 numbers are very similar to (slightly lower than) Wathan's. And he didn't have Wathan's speed. (Or at least, if he did, he didn't use it.)
Collapso, OTOH, played just two and a half years to rack up his 4.2 WAR. He had a 92 *OPS+; SLIGHTLY higher than Rojas, but I'll admit that it seems strange that he was able to catch Rojas' 7+ seasons in just 2+ with such a small difference. The difference might have been in thier dWAR: Both were (statistically) about the same, but both were a net negative, defensively. And Rojas played longer, so his defensive penalty was proportinately higher. (-2.3 to -1.2)
Grudzielanek (the third Second Baseman, with 6.6 WAR) was a better hitter than either of them, with a 96 *OPS+. But the biggest difference was on DEFENSE: Grudz was statistically a net POSITIVE with a dWAR of 1.3 over three years. (Where Rojas and Collapso were both in the red.)
Now... You can argue that one was better than the other, whatever... I've never actually seen Grudzielanek play, nor Collapso for that matter and Rojas was alomst a decade too early for me, as I didn;t start following baseball until I was ~12. And while I'll be the first to argue, pationately, that ANY defensive evaluation based on the standard Defensive stats (PO, A, E & DP's) is at best imperfect and at worst misleading, that's how the dWAR numbers worked out: Grudzielanek was a better defender than Rojas (and Collapso) and that's what kicked him over the top. I place no value judgement, nor do I have any ego invested, in that conclusion.